[2] An ignition magneto also includes an electrical transformer,[2] which converts the electricity to a higher voltage (with the trade-off being a corresponding reduction in the output current).[2]. Thanks again. The impulse coupling uses a spring, a hub cam with flyweights, and a shell. The Magneto Guys - Vintage, Veteran, Classic Magneto Repairs If the brush is missing or there is only a very short piece in the pick-up, the brush (or part of it) may have come out and dropped to the bottom of the magneto housing. yourselves. Still here since 1996 serving BritBike enthusiasts. 0000003777 00000 n "A Community of Antique Engine Enthusiasts." Norsk Disassemble the advance/retard mechanism carefully noting which part goes where. A really nice one will jump 1/2"or better. magnetos and capacitors (for those who wish to 0000003086 00000 n further selection that can be reconditioned on For example: Check as best you can that the brush is actually making contact with the track on which it runs. Gift Article. The other plug cap should give a reading that is infinite (OL) or extremely high. If you are having trouble with your ignition system we recommend that you first change your spark plugs and HT leads. have a small choice of reconditioned instructions). When screwed in the head, however, the plugs make no spark. Points and contacts cleaned, and wires tested for continuity. These are prone to deterioration and the cause of many ignition faults. Common Faults on Magnetos If there is a main-body earth brush and it is accessible, remove it and check that the spring is good, that the brush is free to move in the holder and that the brush is not unduly worn in length or diameter. Thanks mmcdonald, all good info. And a f-ing video! Lucas workshop instructions - magnetos Library Robert Bosch Documentation American Bosch workshop instructions Patents Books and learnd papers Workshop instructions - Lucas magnetos N1, KN1, K1F, K2F, KVF MO1L, MN2L Redesigned contact breaker for ring cam models SR magnetos (general info.) ZK~!c. Make sure they are there and can move in their holders and give them a good clean. grade to avoid carbon deposits on the slip Your mag likely has a bad condensor. If it has any unusual marks, try to work out what caused them and whether anything should/could be done about them. PDF LUCAS MAGNETOS - edknet.de troubleshooting your magneto. and overhauls. [5] The hub of the magneto rotates while the drive shaft is held stationary, and the spring tension builds up. . Capacitors are replaced with ones that have a longer life expectancy and greater reliability. JavaScript is disabled. NEWS FLASH - March 2020 As you will understand, with the Covid-19 pandemic shutting down most normal business, we are not able to despatch orders for the time being. If I was working on it, first I would want a 5/16" air gap consistent spark minimum from the coil terminal to ground. With the earth brush(es) now replaced, measure the resistance between the back-plate of the contact breaker assembly and the main body of the magneto. detailed instructions in our 'condensectomy' For example, in the Lucas K1F and K2F, the earth brush is located on top inboard of the main mounting flange. It is also used in modern piston-engined aircraft[citation needed] (even though a battery is present), to avoid the engine relying on an electrical system. Put a smear of grease on the surface of the cam that engages its housing. With an open circuit the device has no CAPACITY to absorb the reaction voltage (back EMF) from the coil, therefore this energy is dissipated across the timing contact which quickly burns away. The coils are, of course, designed for this pressure but no insulation is perfect. anglais, votre convenance. found elsewhere on the internet or in the Also, many magnetos (especially twin- and multi-cylinder devices) are provided internally with safety gaps, typically of 6.5 to 7.5 mm, and if the magneto cant find an outlet through whatever is or isnt connected to it, it happily sparks the safety gaps instead. magneto electronic ignition conversion, repairs Lucas & BTH, 5 year You need to be a member in order to leave a comment. I have seen that a lot on FM mags. All How to 'Kill' a Lucas KVF Magneto? - Vincent H.R.D. Owners Club Forum I tested the HT wire and spark plug and both are fine. Rotate the armature and check that, when the points are fully open, the moving point assembly is not fouling anything. magnetos available for sale or in 0000000016 00000 n Check that the spring of the pick-up brush is good, that the brush is free to move in its holder and that it is not unduly worn in length or diameter. Lucas Ga4 Magneto Austin 7, Morris, Riley And Many Others Service Exchan. or Pick-up brushes of the highest quality are also available, of the correct grade to avoid carbon deposits on the slip ring. At least I assume so: My timing light (seen in photo clamped to plug wire #1) illuminates correctly when plug #1 is unscrewed from the engine and sparks, but it does not light up when the plug is screwed into the engine. On more advanced magnetos the cam ring can be rotated by an external linkage to alter the ignition timing. I forgot about this. found in all rotating-coil magnetos. Dansk Not sure what came off, but 1930s/40s I would have thought.prefer collection, but would post. From time to time we have complete When screwed in the head, however, the plugs make no spark. Norsk To all you guys with Lucas magnetos with problems, get ready to see it fully functional for about $23 shipped, along with a little work in your garage. However, if the outside of the pick-up is also oily, perhaps its all caused by an engine oil leak. Post in the forum instead. of which is the product of Brightspark Magnetos Ltd's Blue spark is great but if it can only jump .03" when external of a cylinder with no compression pressureswhen you add the compression and fuel mix it will fall on its face. Dansk The magneto gives a good spark when spun by hand or when kicked over with the plugs removed. [6], The first car to use magneto ignition was the 1901 German Mercedes 35 hp racing car, followed by various cars produced by Benz, Mors, Turcat-Mery, and Nesseldorf. The high voltage will simply arc across the gap. Lucas KF2 magneto failure - Britbike forum In either case, the magneto needs a more complete overhaul. information aggregated from many sources. (Chinese) At least I assume so: My timing light (seen in photo clamped to plug wire #1) illuminates correctly when plug #1 is unscrewed from the engine and sparks, but it does not light up when the plug is screwed into the engine. You can check for this by trying to start in a dark area with no lighting. We also sell our Brightspark range of These are prone to deterioration and the cause of many ignition faults. ring. Others have an earth brush between the main body of the magneto and an earth track of the armature. From the basic to the complex - some Translations provided by the Google Translate service. i'm an asshole, you probably shouldn't listen to me. If youre giving your magneto a thorough check over, we suggest you tackle jobs in the order shown. Without suppressor: suppressor: Percentage difference with suppressor: Peak HT voltage to initiate spark: 9600 V: 10600 V at magneto: 10.4 %: 9300 V at spark gap-3.1 %: DC component of HT current immediately after striking spark: 53 mA: 52 mA-1.8 % It appears that magnetio does not have in impulse coupling which means the engine must turn over much faster to develop as hot a spark as if there was an impulse. If the resistance is higher than about 15,000 ohms, it indicates a bad connection. Remagnetisation - Brightspark Magnetos That then produces a gap of about 4 mm between the centre electrode and the screw-threaded bit of the plug body. If there are any, repeat until the paper comes out clean. To have the discharge go arc back into the coil itself or the mag housing causes some serious damage. If you do not obtain readings substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section, and if everything else you previously checked is still good, it indicates that the pick-up brush(es) is/are not making good electrical contact with the brass of the slip ring. In that case, it it best to dismantle the magneto to retrieve it. I wonder if hand-cranking might get it going. Brightspark Magnetos is now able to offer a remagnetising service, using our specially-developed remagnetising and measuring equipment to help you restore your magneto to tip-top condition. You should not let a Wico X go out the door if it will not jump more than 1/4" because something is wrong. A One of the plug caps should give a reading which is substantially the same as the reading you obtained in the internal HT continuity section. It's a 6v system, so the starter turns rather slowly (maybe 80rpm), but I think it should be fast enoughto start. Do not skimp on quality with pick-up brushes. Espaol 0000009971 00000 n 096792012013 - 2020 | Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield, Website design by The Net Effect of Sheffield. Really need a coil tester. Clean and grease the moving-point pivot. However, dont make them lop-sided. If it was a typo then you can run it with the cap and rotor off by just holding your wire to the HT terminal and that would eliminate the cap land rotor from the equation. I did notice a very small spark between the contact breaker points. Fantastic! VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Come join the discussion about performance, restorations, modifications, classifieds, troubleshooting, maintenance, and more! In the Lucas MO1, it is on one side, adjacent the contact-breaker housing. What else could possibly be grounding this? I would definitely try another condenser if it were me. If the magneto wont produce a spark across a 6 mm (or 4 mm) gap at leisurely kicking speeds, and if youve satisfied yourself with all the other checks described earlier, then it probably needs a more complete overhaul. While holding it in that position, tighten the centre screw, but do not use undue force. Magneto advice - lucas rf4 in vedette engine | YBW Forum tour of some of our specialised workshop They were used in the village forge in Cullworth (northaptonshire). Magneto services Great write up, with video even! Thank you for your patience. Sign up for a new account in our community. BTH mags utilized condensers made from mica. The ratio of turns in the secondary winding to the number of turns in the primary winding, is called the turns ratio. 5.5 mm (220 thou) THREE-POINT SPARK GAP. We degrade with age. books. Then wash the points with petrol and dry them. The plugs are non resistor, gaped at -025", and are new. Can you rig up real cables? The voltage generated across magneto coils is quite high, in the order of 20,000 volt if no spark plugs are in place. replacement for the condenser (capacitor) in is it rebuilt? Please get in contact if you know anything about aerograph compressors especially if you have technical drawings.Last, but not least, if you want to receive notifications when more videos in this series are uploaded please subscribe to the channel. A second coil, with many more turns than the primary, is wound on the same iron core to form an electrical transformer. Parts lists and workshop instructions, not I do not think this is your issue because the timing light does not trigger. Ignition - Check Spark strength, Spark timing and . Nederlandse BTH mags utilized condensers made from mica. and other magneto parts. i totally agree. Built into the case of the magneto are magnets, permanent magnets. We would therefore strongly advise against ever trying to make a magneto strike a spark across a gap of anything in excess of 7.5 mm in fresh air. Check that the advance/retard mechanism reliably rotates the cam back and forth. Having removed the contact-breaker assembly from the magneto, disassemble it, noting where each part was. A fair amount maintenance and troubleshooting of a magneto can be done with the magneto in situ and without any special tools or equipment other than a multimeter. [5], The first person to develop the idea of a high-tension magneto was Andr Boudeville,[citation needed] but his design omitted a condenser (capacitor). Upgrade your membership to With larger gaps, if the magneto is provided with a safety gap, the spark is more likely to jump there where it cant be seen, so thats a waste of time. On the Lucas magnetos, the spec is to jump a .200 gap at 200 rpm for the slow speed test. 0000007301 00000 n The timing marks should not wander with the RPM of the drill. [7] Ignition magnetos were largely replaced by ignition coils once batteries became common in cars, since a battery-operated coil can provide a high-voltage spark even at low speeds, making starting easier.[8]. Grease. Nearly all magnetos have a gasket between the pick-up and the magneto body (a) to prevent water entry and (b) to set the correct clearance between the pick-up holder and the slip ring. only for magnetos, but also classic motorcycle Just to reinforce a point here of something very well done that you did in the how-to: when you're testing a mag like this, ALWAYS have the plug wires hooked up with a gap (or plugs) to ground so that energy has somewhere to go. Great photos, quality! Check the state of the contact return spring and replace if broken. Values vary considerably depending on the make and model of magneto and who wound it. - there's a lot of stuff in our frequently Svensk An ignition magneto (also called a high-tension magneto) is an older type of ignition system used in spark-ignition engines (such as petrol engines). Check the state of the tappet and replace if necessary. When we undertake the renovation of these magnetos, we examine the following:-. Rotate the armature and check that the contact- breaker spring never touches the cam. Thoroughly clean the pick-up using a rag moistened with petrol. Check for any dirty marks on the paper. Turn the armature in its proper direction of rotation until the contact-breaker points are just starting to open on the other cam lobe. At atmospheric pressure, the voltage required to strike a spark across the 0.020 (0.5 mm) gap of a sparking plug is far less than the voltage required at the elevated pressure that the plug experiences in the engines cylinder. The readings for the two plug caps should now be swapped around. Brightspark Magnetos Ltd disclaims responsibility for any Rotate the armature and check that the contact-breaker assembly does not foul its housing. "Specializing in Triumph and other fine Vintage motorcycles". I think it may be do to condensor failure. Lister D Magneto Lucas RS1 full rebuild but still no spark - YouTube fitted, the EasyCap becomes a routine service First test is to take the plug caps off the HT leads and position the ends of the HT leads 1/4" away from the casting. I have seen several condensers during that time whichwork for the half but will not generate the field collapse andfire the plug . I'll try the 3/16" gap test. Links to other service providers can be found Then check that the contact-breaker assembly is not wobbly on the end of the shaft. downloadable drawings for those of you who With Lucas devices, if it fouls the contact-breaker spring, the contact-breaker assembly will need to be removed and the effective length of the spring increased as necessary. With your multimeter set to display resistance and connected to the opposite faces of the circuit board of the EasyCap (and with your fingers touching no more than one side of the circuit), the meter reading should climb up from a low value until it goes off the scale (OL). Alnico, the material most often used to fabricate early magnets has a tendency to lose its induced magnetic field over time due to various causes. We shall resume operations as soon as we possibly can. read more deeply). use in our workshop for magneto servicing Replace the main-body earth brush, if applicable. If you have a Megger or similar insulation tester, set it to test at 500V. Measure the resistance with the two probes of your multi-meter shorted together. As the voltage of the primary winding rises to several hundred volts,[3][4] the voltage on the secondary winding rises to several tens of thousands of volts, since the secondary winding typically has 100 times as many turns as the primary winding.[3]. Our It is almost a given that a Lucas armature will require replacement if in the original condition. There has been requests lately on the board for more tech stuff. Regrettably, some Acrobat .pdf files might not rebuilt amature runs about 85pnds from independent ignition. However, provided the reading is more than about 500 ohms, it is probably OK. not load correctly in the translated versions of the pages. If you have identified the magneto as the source of your ignition fault send it to us for repair. Place a clean piece of strong paper between the points, and with the points closed pull the paper out. Put 2 hours of flawless time on the bench. old condenser to be disconnected. The permanent magnet can be static, as in the classical horse-shoe form, with the transformer windings rotating between the poles, or sometimes the magnet is mounted on the armature and rotates within the core of a static winding. The contact points which are mounted onto the end of the armature shaft, used to time the breaking of the primary winding current, will become pitted and worn, especially so if the capacitor is faulty. March 21, 2020 in Technical. Take a look wish to 'demystify and simplify' wherever we can, so DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS IF YOU ARE FITTED WITH A PACEMAKER, OR HAVE A HEART CONDITION, OR IF YOU REALLY HATE ELECTRIC SHOCKS. Lucas Magneto Bearing Shim Pack 15mm | E15 | N3048 | K1F | SR | K2F . Nous With BTH devices, if the moving point assembly fouls the eccentric pin, the pin will need to be adjusted. Magneto coils are usually a long time dying. Italiana In early magnetos the magnets were formed from a cobalt material and had to be remagnetised if the armature was ever removed. Lucas (and most other) capacitors made in the 50's & 60's used a paper dielectric. I did run the rpm up with my lathe to 1,000 rpm & it easily jumped 5/8", so were good there, SMOKSTAK is a Registered Trade Mark in the U.S. English Lister D Magneto Lucas RS1 full rebuild but still no spark Coil Fail. A good Wico X series mag will jump at least 3/8" air gap. I can guarantee every British motorcycle powered by a magneto i either not delivering maximum spark and/or is on the verge of failing if the original Lucas capacitor has not been replaced. detailed support we offer. Main-body Earth Brushes and Bearing Insulators: Some magnetos have an earth brush between the contact-breaker back-plate and the contact breaker housing. Brightspark Magnetos - Home themselves. We also have kits for more unusual magnetos, such as the BTH, ML, Magnetos France, Morel, Lucas wader, Lucas KVF, etc., and for cars. Since the beginning of World War I in 1914, magneto-equipped aircraft engines have typically been dual-plugged, whereby each cylinder has two spark plugs, with each plug having a separate magneto system. It uses a magneto and a transformer to make pulses of high voltage for the spark plugs. To contact injunmort simply click on his name and the forum will display his e-mail address, Helge. Electrics & Ignition | SRM Classic Bikes I can never stress this enough to people who try to test out their mags. Our patented EasyCap is a simple JRC Engineering Inc. 3110 Indian Ave Unit 1E, Perris, CA, 92571. The condensers we get now are made in area's that there are no or very poor quality control checks. Lucas workshop instructions - magnetos Make a note of the reading; youll need to refer to it later. It may not display this or other websites correctly. 0000002847 00000 n With the plugs in the engine connect one plug outside like you have been testing it to confirm no spark, If there is spark present I would open the gap of an old spark plug to 3/16" and see if the spark will jump that gap. Mechanical - Bearings, insulation, washers and shimming the armature. If there is a quickly-detachable connection between the HT lead and pick-up, undo it and check the condition of the connection. 82 0 obj<> endobj Nice work. making your own bearing and slip-ring pullers; If the pick-up is retained by spring clip, swing it to one side while holding the pick-up in place. load correctly in the translated versions of the pages. Check that the felt pad in the end of the screw holding together the two blocks of the points assembly is present and good, and soak it in oil. When inserting the brushes; you may have to do. British motorcycles on e-Bay North America, Powered by UBB.threads PHP Forum Software 7.7.5. To maintain a dedicated website that covers the quality are also available, of the correct Another problem, due to constant hot, cold, expansion, contraction, vibration or mechanical impact, is breakage of the fine winding wire. The capacitor and the coil together form a resonant circuit which allows the energy to oscillate from the capacitor to the coil and back again. %%EOF here. A forum community dedicated to Jockey motorcycle owners and enthusiasts. You are probably loosing amperage through the jumper cables.